Curse

Atreyu The Ranger · Feb 08, 2007, 04:25 PM // 16:25

Hello all,

Please forgive the long post but I have many relevant thoughts to share.

Let me just start off by saying that anything that I opine, I could be wrong about, but I'll say when something is confirmed fact, and when something is just my suspicion.

I've been solo green-farming for a while now... [A/E] Recently, it is my opinion that they have made some major, but subtle, changes to the anti-farm lockout system. I call it that for reasons that you'll see.

Fact: I have NEVER gotten the blue message about telling me to go do something else and that I've farmed too much in the area, etc. Yes, I have hints enabled in options.

Up until only this past week at some point near the weekend, I was able to farm various bosses and get a few drops here and there. On a typical day farming let's say 4 bosses I would get at least one of each, many times more than one when I come back to them. On some occasions, I've gotten 5 or more greens in the span of 1 hour. This is NOT on a weekend-special. (the A/E build is that good)

Recently, however, I have been only able to get ONE, then I have to do a mission, then I get ONE green again, but no matter how much more I kill bosses, I don't get any more greens. I have to do another mission, and I get one more (fairly quickly actually!).

It is my opinion that they have perhaps made it also a factor as to how much time you spend farming bosses, vs. playing the game. In other words, just doing a mission will not totally reset you to be able to get the normal amount of drops, but maybe doing several missions and quests will give you a larger green "allotment"

I brought this to the attention of NCSoft on the PlayNC support system. Here is their response; I am snipping out irrelevant things like their useless advice (such as "if you have heros or henchmen the odds are less"):

Hello,

Thank you for contacting Guild Wars Support. Please note that green items are considered very rare so they do not drop as often as some other weapons. --SNIP useless cookie-cutter info--

Finally, please note that constant farming of a single boss can decrease your chances of getting a rare. The more that you farm a single mission or instance, the chances for a rare item to drop decrease as well. Make sure that you occasionally play through a few missions as normal. If you've completed all of the missions and quest for a campaign, help out a lower leveled character on one of those missions that was really hard for you. Please let us know if you have any more questions and we will be more than happy to assist you.

Regards,
The Guild Wars Support Team

One last opinion is that they have also tweaked the bosses and the surrounding mobs to decrease the effect of typical easy-to-do farming techniques. Example: The Scar Eater - in the past, provided that I aggroed the other group nearby, and provided that Sliver Armor sticks to him (you can tell if he barely loses any health or it drops dramatically), he would drop like a brick. Sometimes he lasted almost to the end of Sliver Armor, sometimes just past and I'd finish him off with Obsidian Flame.

However, in the recent days, he has more often than not outlived all my attempts, even though Sliver definitely stuck to him, even with 3 Onis mauling me as well! He outlives my attempts 50% of the time typically, when used to be 1 out of 10 at most. The same goes for some other bosses even extremely easy ones such as Mindclouder - I had 3 mobs on me with him, and his health managed to stay at around 2% or so and just would not finish off.

I know this has been a loooooong post, and I don't mean to ramble, it is more a frustration of not having any clue what to expect- firstly because the 'formula' may be quite complicated, but also because I think they are constantly tweaking it so we will never be able to have a reliable methodology for very long.

My final thought is: why in the name of anything do they care?! There are times when nothing is more fun for me than doing a few quests and missions with guildies and having laughs etc, but there are times when I am desperate for money or I just want some greens for my heros- why does it bother them and incite them to constantly nerf things?

Any helpful advice, insight etc. is welcome.
Thanks!

buzzerman · Feb 08, 2007, 05:56 PM // 17:56

I tend to agree with some of your observations..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atreyu The Ranger

Recently, it is my opinion that they have made some major, but subtle, changes to the anti-farm lockout system.

I am not sure how "recently" such changes were implemented, but I am having a somewhat similar experience to yours regarding a sudden decrease on green drops (E/A mostly in my case) -- even when I take all the precautions to not "over-farm" the same boss repeatedly. In my case the lockout seems to have taken place around Wintersday (that was when the Mindclouder suddenly stopped dropping for me on all characters on my account, even after getting one almost every 4-5 runs previously with my E/A).

I would add that my impression is that the decrease in green drop rate mostly applies to greens that have already dropped for you (your character/account) a few times in the past. Again, that decrease happens even if you don't farm the same bosses continuously (say you alternate the bosses, or do missions etc. between runs). The Blue Window warning has nothing to do with this hidden tweaking of your "green drop" rate..

Accordingly, in my experience the drop rate is very good for *new* bosses (those that you haven't killed before).. I have gotten a few Factions greens with my E/A (after getting frustrated with Mindclouder) from the first [few] runs (outside the green week-ends, indeed) -- whenever I approached bosses I have never farmed before..

I cannot back you up on this one though:

Quote:

One last opinion is that they have also tweaked the bosses and the surrounding mobs to decrease the effect of typical easy-to-do farming techniques.

Now, again using Mindclouder as an example -- I haven't had any problems killing him recently with both A/E and E/A. The only times he survived was when either he suddenly moved away from me, kiting (out of range of Sliver Armor) or when on of those Queen beetle insect was somehow healing him from a distance (there is a patrol like that there sometimes). Both cases happened as rarely both BEFORE and AFTER the sudden decrease in green drops -- in my experience.

As for the Scar Eater, don't know, I also haven't noticed a big difference in his resilience recently -- I think there is also a Rit nearby, right? And with the latest Ritualist buffs, don't know.. perhaps he's getting better healing/protection..

Quote:

My final thought is: why in the name of anything do they care?! There are times when nothing is more fun for me than doing a few quests and missions with guildies and having laughs etc, but there are times when I am desperate for money or I just want some greens for my heros- why does it bother them and incite them to constantly nerf things?

Good point, I am totally with you on this one. Moreover, the green prices dropped so much lately (with all their special weekends and stuff) that I don't know what they are trying to prevent/save by having such a complex and devious anti-farming (anti green drop?) code..

vespertine · Feb 08, 2007, 06:05 PM // 18:05

as stated in the mail by the support team: green items are supposed to be rare.. i totally agree with that..

usually purple items are sufficient for heroes, and if you are ambitious to equip your heroes with greens and perfect weapons you got to be ambitious at farming as well..

as i mentioned in another thread yesterday, i welcome the fact that farming got more difficult recently.. where's the fun in just activating the same skills in the same order every time? i enjoy and appreciate the challenge.. GW would become to boring if it was the same all the time..

just my 0,02 cent

Atreyu The Ranger · Feb 08, 2007, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by buzzerman

I tend to agree with some of your observations..

I would add that my impression is that the decrease in green drop rate mostly applies to greens that have already dropped for you (your character/account) a few times in the past. Again, that decrease happens even if you don't farm the same bosses continuously (say you alternate the bosses, or do missions etc. between runs). The Blue Window warning has nothing to do with this hidden tweaking of your "green drop" rate..

Yes I just recently discovered in some articles that the blue message is believed to be only when you are entering an area, killing the first few monsters, and repeating. Concensus is that it does not apply to greens

About "new" vs. "old" bosses - I did take that concept into account, except last week alone I got easily 10 Scar Eaters in the span of a few days! And I was not farming anything else!

Quote:

Originally Posted by buzzerman

I cannot back you up on this one though:

I noticed also about the healers and Rts nearby, in the case of Mindclouder and Scar Eater, so I think I may have rushed to a conclusion too quickly. With perseverence I have been able to get enough aggro usually, but I recognize that depending on some random elements of the spawn, sometimes it just 'ain't in the cards'

Quote:

Originally Posted by buzzerman

Good point, I am totally with you on this one. Moreover, the green prices dropped so much lately (with all their special weekends and stuff) that I don't know what they are trying to prevent/save by having such a complex and devious anti-farming (anti green drop?) code..

I think it is similar to a lot of "nerfs" they have made. Although I had not been playing GW at the time, it is my understanding from what I've heard that Necros used to have no limit on how many minions they could have. Nerfing that was a big smack in everyone's face, but honestly, the MM remained a force to be reckoned with... however, they recently nerfed it again so that minions will randomly flee from battle, and for quite a while, though this hardly happens anymore, minions would not follow you until you were very far away. I thought this was an attempt at nerfing yet again, so you can't use them as your meat shields, but Support said that they knew it was a problem, and unintentional and they were working on it. Took about 3 weeks but they did fix it mostly..... but I'm getting off topic.

Thanks for your insights, much appreciated.

Atreyu The Ranger · Feb 08, 2007, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by vespertine

usually purple items are sufficient for heroes, and if you are ambitious to equip your heroes with greens and perfect weapons you got to be ambitious at farming as well..
-snip-
just my 0,02 cent

Yeah I agree about equipping my heros - especially since I actually have a few purples which for whatever reason managed to be born max with a perfect native (or in NF, insignia). I have a few purple items which match spec-for-spec golds and greens, yet they are a near-impossible sell - because some people can just be so dumb they see it is purple and say "that's not valuable" I laugh but at the same time its quite disturbing that people can be so dumb. Just look at the specs!

The sole reason for my recent farming obsession is because I'm saving up for Obsidian armor for my Ranger. I would not be interested in such an outlandish expense except for the fact that EVERY other Ranger armor, in my opinion, is hideous or totally un-characteristic. For heaven's sake, a Ranger is a man (or woman) of the wild - a survivor and a hunter. Not some dandy in eveningwear. Have you seen the Kurzick Ranger armor? Hideous!

I've also been spending a lot of time building and perfecting golds, and they have yielded some good revenue, though not as much as I would hope. I have to start farming desired skins wherever they drop.

So anyway, that's why I am recently obsessed with farming. Otherwise I have plenty of awesome armor on many of my characters, but the Obsid is unfortunately the only one for the Ranger that doesn't sicken me.

Thanks for your input, much appreciated.

Gwmaster · Feb 08, 2007, 09:30 PM // 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by vespertine

as stated in the mail by the support team: green items are supposed to be rare.. i totally agree with that..

usually purple items are sufficient for heroes, and if you are ambitious to equip your heroes with greens and perfect weapons you got to be ambitious at farming as well..

as i mentioned in another thread yesterday, i welcome the fact that farming got more difficult recently.. where's the fun in just activating the same skills in the same order every time? i enjoy and appreciate the challenge.. GW would become to boring if it was the same all the time..

just my 0,02 cent

not everyone likes farming, i have to admit that i love farming(not farming like a freaking bot) but 30 mins of farming makes me think of something else than doing the same missions over and over again after 20 month of playing time.

and im sorry to disapoint you lol but, GuildWars is the same all the time.
After you finish it with one character..you have to do the same thing over again.

anyways..last time i farmed was back wen the griffins were still there
and that there was no aoe update..but i can live without it. At least helping new people is fun

Y.T. · Feb 08, 2007, 09:51 PM // 21:51

i think u always had to do mission or 2 in-between farming runs, its usually rly easy to say when u have to do the mission - the moment u stop getting golds in 2 consecutive runs after clearing the area u're supposed to be nice and go help smbdy do some low-lvl and dumb mission (so much fun oh yeah). i cant say anything about the blue anti-farming msg, cos i got it only once long time ago, i'm not patient enought to farm THAT much

i've noticed that mobs spawns were quite weird in quite a few areas recently (i wasnt farming, just questing with ppl) mb they're doing smth with mobs AI again and weird spawns r just happen cos of it, i got no idea, i doubt any1 but devs can know for sure....

it might be the case that anet intentionally makes u do missions in-between farming runs more often now to help players to find pugs - honestly who will want to coach some noob wammo or d/mo when u can just get ur koss, give him skills of ur choice, do evrthing urself.... personally i like it that now we have an option to choose between some random ppl who might be experienced polite players or rude stupid morons and nice obedient heros who will do what was expected when u said so

but as a result u can see huge packs of dervishes and paragons in all kournan/vabbian towns spamming LFG for hrs, mb anet thinks that if we'll be forced to do missions more often we'll help the noobs? who knows? it might be the reason behind the changes

ephexx · Feb 08, 2007, 09:56 PM // 21:56

I have a story myself ^_^

I was looking for Ghials, for my MM a... hmm.. month ago? Anyway, sometime around that, and I figured what the hell, i'll just farm it.. got a group, and we got 2 ghial staff drops in a row, and so just recently I decided to start soloing ghials on my ele, and I have done MANY runs and not to get a SINGLE GREEN YET! I think this definitaley is not our imaginations, I think A-NET has made it harder for greens to drop, which I don't mind.. Greens started turning in to golds, and people saw a green and went z0mg its t3h best, when you can just get a collector item and mod it up, vuala you have the stats of a green.

Like I said, I agree with the increase of rarity for greens, because they started turning in to normal drops, and lost the whole point of being a "green item", being a, supposedly, "very rare drop", and now it is again...

But, I think it is VERY rediculous how golds are so rare these days.. It is hard to farm gold weapons any more, which I love to farm because they are fun to ID IMO, like desert griffons you got golds often, and they weren't always great stats, but it was a good farming spot and now it's hard to find a nice spot where you don't have to worry about changing your build every other day, or worrying about when the spot will get nerfed...

I miss the old days of GW where it wasn't so complicated, and yeah, why DOES a net care so damn much, can't they just leave us alone? I understand that if they didn't make it a little harder to get golds, the game would become boring and useless because golds would become as valuable as blues are, but for heaven's sake don't make it so damn hard..

that's my rant and my opinions..

red13xx · Feb 09, 2007, 12:26 PM // 12:26

That is because farming him for a long time in a period where his chance to drop a green is low means nothing. Most bosses have a randomized percent to drop a green which goes up and down based on time of day or some other factor..I have farmed ghial many times and have even got ghials staff 3 times in a row and sometimes it has taken me days to even get one with a constant solo farm per day..same with other bosses..I get my greens easily by farming multiple bosses with other characters or the same character pulling about 3-5 different greens in a few hours and it is worth it to farm this way because you spend a few hours farming and getting more for the time spent. As I get more builds to the later part of the game it will be tough for anet to nerf the farming on all of them also so if they nerf one build i have others to fall back on..Now the main problem is that cash flow now is just harder to get so selling items for there value is difficult..the way it is now guildwars is not self sufficient without an auction house(even if it is for greens only (so forums still get to sell there popular gold items etc.) and an NPC for Mods and inscriptions. this will help players who farm greens to at least do what they need to do and not spend half the time they are on to spam in trade WTS there stuff..

Atreyu The Ranger · Feb 09, 2007, 09:39 PM // 21:39

Yes what you said about the golds is definitely true... I used to get a gold item from a chest quite often... nowadays even in the deepest of advanced areas where the keys cost 1.5k, I get a gold item maybe 1/3 of the time at most. One time in Tombs (not quite as expensive keys, but still considered "high-end") we had 4 chests over the whole run, everyone opened all of them, and EVERYONE got grape! Now tell me that's fair... or 'random'?

I think the day the added the "Buried Treasure," "Treasure Chest," and "Do Not Touch" specials, they BIG TIME nerfed all the rest of the normal key-chests. I have done most of the aforementioned 3 with most of my characters, just not the ones in Realm of Torment... got to get together with a good team or those. But indeed, gold items have become scarce - especially ones with actually decent mods. Most of the golds I have managed to get have totally sucked, they went immediately to merchant.

Well, today it's nerfing greens and golds, another day it's nerfing profession skills, one of these days they'll make your character randomly die of heart failure, or one random item from your inventory will be "stolen by Kournan theives" who knows what to expect. Maybe your next birthday present will be a bomb, and your character will be deleted! Yay!!! At least it's not boring or repetitious! Thank youuuuuuuu NC!

Hyprodimus Prime · Feb 10, 2007, 03:00 AM // 03:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCsoft

If you've completed all of the missions and quest for a campaign, help out a lower leveled character on one of those missions that was really hard for you. Please let us know if you have any more questions and we will be more than happy to assist you.

And they nerfed power leveling did they not?

its the same as mission running.

Punches · Feb 11, 2007, 06:07 PM // 18:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atreyu The Ranger

...it is my understanding from what I've heard that Necros used to have no limit on how many minions they could have. Nerfing that was a big smack in everyone's face...

Dude I had just gotten over that. Literally just gotten over that at like 8:00 this morning, and now I'm all angry again. I seriously almost quit playing GW when they put a limit on minions, as all I ran at the time was MM. How can something be "Overpowered" in PVE, really?

I have a question, It says to "Help out low level players with their missions" right? I do quests/missions from time to time but almost never do I run with another player. I use heros and henchies, solo, or 2man with my GF, and that's it. I haven't run with a single other player since nightfall was released. Could that be affecting my drop rate as well? What about finishing the quest, Do I need to reach the completion screen or can I enter mission, kill some stuff and get some chests and then back out, for the drop rate to be affected?

drupal · Feb 11, 2007, 09:58 PM // 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyprodimus Prime

And they nerfed power leveling did they not?

its the same as mission running.

powerleveling works...
mission running works...

AcidDog · Feb 12, 2007, 08:39 AM // 08:39

umm... in finishing NF 8 times this week, with 8 different characters and capping all the elites for those characters and in getting past other bosses to get to the elite bosses and in killing bosses in the course of traveling around and doing mission, over 150 bosses killed and 0 green drops and 3 gold drops, none from bosses.

ANet has done something... not sure what, but something has been done.

Dronte · Feb 12, 2007, 02:55 PM // 14:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by AcidDog

umm... in finishing NF 8 times this week, with 8 different characters and capping all the elites for those characters and in getting past other bosses to get to the elite bosses and in killing bosses in the course of traveling around and doing mission, over 150 bosses killed and 0 green drops and 3 gold drops, none from bosses.

ANet has done something... not sure what, but something has been done.

But u killed all these bosses with henches arent you? So dont wait for green, nearly impossible

(I only get one with full party)

[DE] · Feb 12, 2007, 10:26 PM // 22:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by drupal

powerleveling works...
mission running works...

Powerleveling is horrible, being nerfed beyond belief. And so although it still does exist, it just doesn't seem viable to most people anymore.

Mission running is also out the window. There are only 2 missions I can think of in Nightfall that you can 'run'.

ephexx · Feb 13, 2007, 12:52 AM // 00:52

Good, I'm glad they nerfed mission running and powerleveling... It really is the thing that brought GW to what it is today, a big nerf (atleast Prophecies...)..

Everyone made the most common classes, 55 monks, rushed them through the game and got them power leveld and ran the desert missions to ascend, rangers, eles, any good farming class, people made them and rushed them through the game, and started farming like mad and it ruined the game... It made A net nerf so many things it's not even funny, like trolls (actually were nerfed by ppl over-farming them, their drops suck now..), they completely destroyed desert griffons, mineral springs is harder to solo with a w/me now, for IDS', etc. etc...

I just hope that once I get my guys through NF I can find some good farming spots, because prophecies farming is a joke... The only profitable places that I know of, are FoW and UW (including Tombs UW)...

drupal · Feb 13, 2007, 04:05 PM // 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Phantom

Powerleveling is horrible, being nerfed beyond belief. And so although it still does exist, it just doesn't seem viable to most people anymore.

Mission running is also out the window. There are only 2 missions I can think of in Nightfall that you can 'run'.

Arjok Ward works pretty well for power leveling =)
The old "runnable" missions are still there.

BTT: I think they changed something, too. Before Nightfall I was able to do 3 missions and I got really nice drops after that (a gold always drops and some rares in UW) - this has been changed imho.

Helcaraxe · Feb 13, 2007, 10:00 PM // 22:00

they are basically nerfing all sources of income for players....